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I Just Don't Get It........

Push&Pull

Push&Pull

Recognized Leader Triumph 210 / 215 Forum
City
Florida City
State
Florida
Another boater missing off Florida's west coast. A father with his 3 teenaged kids calls in he's having difficulty in rough seas in a 29' sailboat and then not heard from again......Now, millions being spent on searching. Debris found, unused life jackets found floating. What is going on in peoples heads. You report difficulty in rough seas????? PUT ON YOUR LIFE JACKET. MAKE YOUR KIDS PUT ON LIFE JACKETS.
While I hope they find them, this is just another incident of "I JUST DON'T GET IT". Tens of thousands of dollars invested in the vessel......and the most important.....His FAMILY with him, trusting him.....and NO EPIRB or PLB. WTF.

300 - 800 bucks and your chances of being rescued go up ten fold. Maybe more. Billions are being spent to make this high tech satellite locating system and all the support manpower and equipment available and you ignore it.
And don't even try that lame line - "I can't afford it".......If you can buy the boat, and trailer and fuel and tackle and electronics, etc etc......then you CAN afford it. You just have your priorities screwed up.

MOTHER NATURE does not forgive or offer second chances. You MUST make use of every available resource in an emergency if you want to survive. I simply do not understand this level of irresponsibility

While I am almost always completely AGAINST Gov't regulation or interference........I think it should be mandatory for the purchase of any boat over a certain size..(maybe 16 foot) that you MUST own, register and maintain a EPIRB or PLB before you are allowed to register the boat.. NO Excuses. And if you don't, your boat gets impounded until your comply. And you are on the hook for the expenses of non compliance or any costs associated with your rescue. This falls within the scope of negligence and anyone not having an using a EPIRB should be held accountable

OK, rant over. What are your thoughts......
 
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I would not object to a mandatory EPIRB law, but TBH I would put it on boats--power or sail--over 20'. I have a Triumph 170CC and I do not have an EPIRB--in my small boat I fish inshore around Cape Cod and Martha's Vineyard, and am never out of sight of land or offshore. The folks with bigger boats that do the occasional tuna or mahi mahi trip need an EPIRB imo.
 
I'm with you! My wife and I were just having the same conversation at dinner.
On another note, I understand the dad called his brother on Sunday to let him know of the rough seas. The brother did not report anything til Tuesday???
Nobody ever leaves a dock expecting not to return. But we all must be prepared for the unexpected.
 
cgg said:
I would not object to a mandatory EPIRB law, but TBH I would put it on boats--power or sail--over 20'. I have a Triumph 170CC and I do not have an EPIRB--in my small boat I fish inshore around Cape Cod and Martha's Vineyard, and am never out of sight of land or offshore. The folks with bigger boats that do the occasional tuna or mahi mahi trip need an EPIRB imo.
Click to expand...
You may not be outa sight of land but can you swim to shore. Small boats sink too. Also, down here in Florida, I see 16 footers out in the Gulfstream all the time.

I have to say, I have even done the Miami to Bimini run in a 16 footer back in the day. And with only a compass. What an idiot I was in my young and dumb period.. :eek:
 
NetWorx said:
Nobody ever leaves a dock expecting not to return. But we all must be prepared for the unexpected.
Click to expand...

I try to imagine the worst case scenario and I take gear for that. I carry tools and spare parts for every imaginable breakdown and emergency pumps for any water intrusion issues. I always carry a Ditch bag, loaded with everything I can fit, packaged water, emergency AED and oxygen, two EPIRB's , a PLB and a SPOT locator and a portable waterproof VHF radio. And I have Boat US tow service. All my PFD are commercial grade and vacuum sealed with harnesses and safety lines flares and strobes.
I even have a wireless system that cuts the engine if I fall overboard.



Needless to say, I take safety seriously. I'm the captain and I am responsible for my passengers and crew. They are not going to want to hear excuses in an emergency. ;)
 
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I am not sure you need a lower limit for boat size. The waters in the sounds that I frequent can kick up in a blink. Couple that with our 8 - 9 foot tides and a small boat can get in trouble in a hurry. I have had some memorable trips back to port and there are very few boats in the area to depend on to save your life. I have seen too many small jon boats, 12 - 14 footers, making their way across the sound under 10-15 knot winds. Just stupid. So, yeah, make it mandatory. Georgia also doesn't require a license or a boating course certificate. A little slow on the uptake around here. The only thing I am more interested in than going out in my boat is making sure I come back in the same way!! :D:D
 
Push&Pull said:
I try to imagine the worst case scenario and I take gear for that. I carry tools and spare parts for every imaginable breakdown and emergency pumps for any water intrusion issues. I always carry a Ditch bag, loaded with everything I can fit, packaged water, emergency AED and oxygen, two EPIRB's , a PLB and a SPOT locator and a portable waterproof VHF radio. And I have Boat US tow service. All my PFD are commercial grade and vacuum sealed with harnesses and safety lines flares and strobes.
I even have a wireless system that cuts the engine if I fall overboard.



Needless to say, I take safety seriously. I'm the captain and I am responsible for my passengers and crew. They are not going to want to hear excuses in an emergency. ;)
Click to expand...

I agree with you. As captains it is our responsibility to try to ensure the safety of everyone aboard, and to expect the unexpected. "Be prepared" as the scouts say. Which is why I had the whole family take the boat license classes (not just me) when we got our first boat, and I lean on the more cautious side when deciding whether or not to go out. But that only goes so far, as like Shallowminded said things can kick up quickly, and after looking at your list, I'm feeling a little under-prepared now. I wonder Capt Bill if you wouldn't mind going into a little more detail about the equipment you have and recommend. I like the idea of having the PFD's vacuum sealed with other equipment already attached, kind of like a 'In case of emergency- break glass' deal, with the added benefit of not worrying about mildew, etc.
 
daveova said:
I wonder Capt Bill if you wouldn't mind going into a little more detail about the equipment you have and recommend. .
Click to expand...

Sorry.....this is long......

Boating comes with all types of potential emergencies. Mechanical breakdowns, medical issues, weather, exposure, thirst, and other unexpected hazards.
Some gear needs to be accessible quickly while other items can be stowed but readily available if needed.

Mechanical preparedness is extremely important and it may prevent a minor issue from escalating to a more dire emergency. I bring a complete assortment of tools and parts to handle many routine issues. Fuel, spark, filters, belts, fuses, leaks, prop entanglements, pumps, lights, wiring, batteries, lube, clamps, etc etc. The tools are mostly stainless steel and the ones that aren't are sealed in "food saver" vacuum sealed bags along with any spare parts and or items that might rust or corrode. Then I put it all in a special "pelican" O ring sealed case that is strapped in out of the way in the console. All watertight. This is the only way to guarantee these items will not be ruined when I need to use them.
I also carry a Rule 4000GPH utility bilge pump setup with a rolled up 1.5" discharge hose and wired with 20 foot cord with battery clips. This will allow me to simply to place the pump where ever I may need it in an emergency and move a massive amount of water quickly.

Next is the basic safety gear. PFD's and Throw-able flotation device. My PFD's are Commercial Adult Type I, top of the line Jackets. All PFDs are marked with my Vessel name, have nylon safety tethers and harnesses clipped to them so everyone can clip to each other and to the boat so they won't drift apart in rough seas. Each PFD has a ditty bag attached with a Strobe light, knife, whistle, personal skyblazer flares, and mirror.
Then each one is Vacuum sealed to prevent any mildew or exposure. I keep two in a nylon zippered storage overhead in the t- top and four in a closed compartment I made exclusively for them in the bow. The throw-able ring is also in the bow compartment. One of the PFDs in the T-top is labeled for myself and has a few additional items including a PLB (personal locating beacon, GPS).

Next is my Ditch Bag. I even chose the bag specifically for this intended use. It is a practically indestructible, special 100% waterproof military grade duffel made by "Watershed". It had ballistic nylon straps and D rings and will float even when filled with gear. I have a tether attached so it can be clipped to me when in the water. The bag is labeled with my name, and the vessel name. I have a strobe and a knife attached to the outside of the bag. The contents of the bag is all the rest of my safety gear. The list of items is long and always growing and getting re-organized and updated, so I won't go into the whole list. In general there is; Complete first aid, including sutures, staples, syringes and lidocaine along with every type of medical first aid care.,Blood clotting agent, hook removal kit, burn kits, etc etc.
A Flare Kits with every type of flare. Handheld horn, .44 magnum bang stick for sharks, Hats, packaged survival water, sunblock, sealed matches, radar reflector, medications, space blankets, bug spray, USB cords, solar charges, handheld VHF, nav charts, toilet paper, etc etc.

Next is my ACR, EPIRB. It is mounted easily accessible, on the console. It has a line attached so it can be clipped to my PFD as well.
This is probably the most important piece of gear. Let's face it, survival is one thing.......But rescue is the main thing. And the EPIRB is the best chance you'll have for rescue. PERIOD! That's why I carry TWO.

My list of other safety related gear goes on, but the above items are the essentials. I can't explain why safety gear is disregarded so much. It is not that difficult or expensive to put together a comprehensive package. And you will find that once you do put it together, you will regard it and treat it as the most important gear you have on your boat. ;)

I'll break out my gear and include some pics for a better visual of how it's put together.
 
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Push&Pull said:
Sorry.....this is long......

Boating comes with all types of potential emergencies. Mechanical breakdowns, medical issues, weather, exposure, thirst, and other unexpected hazards.
Some gear needs to be accessible quickly while other items can be stowed but readily available if needed.

Mechanical preparedness is extremely important and it may prevent a minor issue from escalating to a more dire emergency. I bring a complete assortment of tools and parts to handle many routine issues. Fuel, spark, filters, belts, fuses, leaks, prop entanglements, pumps, lights, wiring, batteries, lube, clamps, etc etc. The tools are mostly stainless steel and the ones that aren't are sealed in "food saver" vacuum sealed bags along with any spare parts and or items that might rust or corrode. Then I put it all in a special "pelican" O ring sealed case that is strapped in out of the way in the console. All watertight. This is the only way to guarantee these items will not be ruined when I need to use them.
I also carry a Rule 4000GPH utility bilge pump setup with a rolled up 1.5" discharge hose and wired with 20 foot cord with battery clips. This will allow me to simply to place the pump where ever I may need it in an emergency and move a massive amount of water quickly.

Next is the basic safety gear. PFD's and Throw-able flotation device. My PFD's are Commercial Adult Type I, top of the line Jackets. All PFDs are marked with my Vessel name, have nylon safety tethers and harnesses clipped to them so everyone can clip to each other and to the boat so they won't drift apart in rough seas. Each PFD has a ditty bag attached with a Strobe light, knife, whistle, personal skyblazer flares, and mirror.
Then each one is Vacuum sealed to prevent any mildew or exposure. I keep two in a nylon zippered storage overhead in the t- top and four in a closed compartment I made exclusively for them in the bow. The throw-able ring is also in the bow compartment. One of the PFDs in the T-top is labeled for myself and has a few additional items including a PLB (personal locating beacon, GPS).

Next is my Ditch Bag. I even chose the bag specifically for this intended use. It is a practically indestructible, special 100% waterproof military grade duffel made by "Watershed". It had ballistic nylon straps and D rings and will float even when filled with gear. I have a tether attached so it can be clipped to me when in the water. The bag is labeled with my name, and the vessel name. I have a strobe and a knife attached to the outside of the bag. The contents of the bag is all the rest of my safety gear. The list of items is long and always growing and getting re-organized and updated, so I won't go into the whole list. In general there is; Complete first aid, including sutures, staples, syringes and lidocaine along with every type of medical first aid care.,Blood clotting agent, hook removal kit, burn kits, etc etc.
A Flare Kits with every type of flare. Handheld horn, .44 magnum bang stick for sharks, Hats, packaged survival water, sunblock, sealed matches, radar reflector, medications, space blankets, bug spray, USB cords, solar charges, handheld VHF, nav charts, toilet paper, etc etc.

Next is my ACR, EPIRB. It is mounted easily accessible, on the console. It has a line attached so it can be clipped to my PFD as well.
This is probably the most important piece of gear. Let's face it, survival is one thing.......But rescue is the main thing. And the EPIRB is the best chance you'll have for rescue. PERIOD! That's why I carry TWO.

My list of other safety related gear goes on, but the above items are the essentials. I can't explain why safety gear is disregarded so much. It is not that difficult or expensive to put together a comprehensive package. And you will find that once you do put it together, you will regard it and treat it as the most important gear you have on your boat. ;)

I'll break out my gear and include some pics for a better visual of how it's put together.
Click to expand...

Thanks Capt Bill for your list, I plan to use it as a guide (no one tells you all the things you REALLY need when you buy a boat).
I look forward to seeing the pics of your gear. Tight lines.
 
Great video. As the saying goes. A picture is worth a thousand words. ;) Even after being rescued, he wouldn't let go of that PLB.
 
Watching that video highlighted some concerns I have with my own boat's safety setup that need addressing.

Having a boat quickly capsize can result is some unexpected problems I overlooked.

1. Loose safety gear sinks or floats away before it can be retrieved.
2. Certain safety equipment becomes submerged and fails.
3. Need for a way to secure people and gear to capsized hull .

I have been keeping my portable VHF and Satellite messenger devices loose on the console's dash. I will now stow them securely in the Ditch Bag.
I keep my Ditch Bag in the Mega hatch. I will now install a eyebolt in the mega hatch compartment, so I can secure the Ditch Bag's tether to it which will prevent it from floating away.before I can get to it.
I am going to update my "Watershed Dry Bag" - Ditch bag with the newer version that has an infiltrator to blow it up after sealing closed so it will float. Then I am going to check that with all the gear I have in it......that it actually will still float. Bringing it, only to have it sink would be embarrassing and downright stupid.
I will attach a mask to my stowed PFD (I presently only have one in the Ditch Bag) so I can use it to aid in retrieving other items from the capsized boat.
If the boat capsizes my Chartplotter GPS will most likely fail. Even if I was able to contact someone, I would not have any coordinates to relay my position. I am going to purchase a newer Handheld VHF with DSC and GPS and keep it stowed in the Ditch Bag.
I am going to make sure I have rope stowed with my Ditch Bag that I can secure to the inverted hull to use as handholds or secure points to fasten PFD tethers.
I am including an Empty clear Sealine Dry bag in the ditch bag so when you are sitting on the capsized hull getting soaked by the rough seas, you can make sure any important things that might not be waterproof..... stay dry.

I am also looking into adding a portable Sat-phone to my safety gear. Only reliable way to contact tow boat or others when offshore.

This is what I have so far.......Anyone else have any more ideas.....or suggestions.
 
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I do want to point out a tip after watching the video.

If you notice, they had two Epirbs. One fixed mount and one a PLB. When the Coast Guard swimmer arrived one of the men asked him if they received both Eprib signals they were transmitting?.
I also carry two Epribs, but activating both at the same time is probably not advisable. While you may think it would increase your chances of contact with the USCG, it would also drain both units battery simultaneously. Better to use one till it is dead and then activate the other. That would provide the maximum transmitting time to be recieved.
 
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