Trim Tabs or Hydrofoils for 170 BASS?

[Troll]

My 2002 170 Bass has a 70 HP Suzuki 4 stroke and usually won't get to plane without someone walking toward the bow while accelerating. I have read all of the previous threads from 2005 forward and can't tell whether hydrofoils or trim tabs are the best solution. I am not fond of having holes drilled in the plate on my motor to attach a hydrofoil. I am also not too fond of the extra wiring and plumbing for hydrolic or electric trim tabs. I found Nauticus Smart Tabs on the net and am wondering if anyone has used them. If so what size did they get and did they improve getting on to plane and top end speed? My current top end speed at 5600 rpm on smooth water is 33 mph per my gps. All help will be appreciated. I am in California so I had to go with the heavier 4 stroke when I bought my boat and since my old boat had a Suzuki 2 stroke which I liked, I stayed with Suzuki.

Thanks, Troll

 

[Dave LeGear]

I would go with a BMS plate and then look into how you are loading the boat and see if you can get some more weight (ballast) forward if possible?

Then I would work on prop upgrade for it looks (but check your engine manual to make sure) like you are not turning enough RPM's at WOT. This would indicate you have too much bite (I would think pitch) for your rig.

 

[rkola]

I've got a 2003 170DC with a 75HP Yamaha 4S. I did not have any problem getting up on plane, but did install the BMS plate to allow me to stay on plane at lower speeds. It not only did that, but really cut down on the "wandering" at slow speed, and according to the better half, improves the overall ride at all speeds. I did the install myself, and it probably took all of 40 minutes, including time to remove the prop for clearance for my drill. If you do go this route, be sure and put a rag or something over the prop area, since the aluminum chips fly around a bit.

 

[Troll]

By design the 170 bass is quite stern heavy. In addition to the 4s motor, you have a 21 gal fuel tank, a 15-20 gal live well, starting battery, and three more storage compartments. The trolling battery is wired for placement under the console. I have also mounted a 4hp 4s kicker motor port side and this must add an aditional 40 - 50 pounds. Putershark's suggestion that I move some weight forward is well taken, but difficult to do. While I do store the anchor and a few other heavy itmes in the two bow storage compartment, there is not much else that I can move forward. I do keep the ice chest forward and do not put water in the live well until I land the first fish of the day. Even with an empty live well and only a 1/3 tank of gas, I still have the problems that I described in my initial problem statement.

Two of you have suggested the BMS plate, where can I get such a plate. Also, does it cause any steering problems when the water is rough?

Thanks, Troll

 

[rkola]

Look for the Stabilizer Plate #BT at http://www.bobsmachine.com/. Price, even with shipping, is comparable to anything I saw at Cabelas or Bass Pro, and the reviews on this site really convinced me to go with this product.

Ron

 

[rkola]

Just re-read your last post, and realized I didn't answer your question regarding rough water. I've only had my Triumph for a few months, so I don't have extensive experience. I did encounter some 3-4 ft waves on a local reservoir before installing the BMS plate, and similar water on a larger lake after installation. By allowing me to stay on plane at a lower speed, the plate gave me a lot more latitude in "tuning" my speed to the water conditions, and definitely smoothed out the ride (dried it out as well!).

 

[Troll]

With regard to the correct prop for my motor and boat, the Suzuki instruction manual says to get the pitch that with WOT produces RPM's 5200 to 5600. For elevations under 2000 feet I use a 17 pitch Suzuki alumimum prop and for higher elevations I use a Suzuki 15 pitch prop. Both produce RPM's at the specified range with WOT. If I use the 15 pitch prop at low elevations, I get serious over rev plus difficulty in controlling the RPM's over 4500. I discussed this with my dealer and we even talked about raising the motor one bolt hole, but decided that it would probably not produce the desired results. Suzuki makes a 16 pitch prop in stainless steel, but I do not want stainless as I fish in a lake with lots of rocks and have several minor digs on the existing alumimum props.
Troll

 

[CRIMAR30]

Trim Tabs/ Hydrofoils

I have 170DC and it "wonders" at low spees also, it must be the same with all the 170's I guess. I'm thinking of putting a hydrofoil on mine, but it's only a few months od, so I', a little cautious of drilling holes in the engine, myself.

 

[fridaysoff]

Bob's machine shop stabilizer plate is the way to go. My 170CC did not wander side to side at low speeds but the stabilizer plate is the ticket for being able to plane at a slower speed. like rkola stated, it really makes a difference in rough water when you can still run on plane and stay dry. It does not slow the boat at WOT. It's smaller than the ole plastic "whale tail" and looks a lot better. Probably cheaper too. It takes about 30 minutes to install.I did not have to remove my prop for the install.
John D.

 

[zeecurt55]

Hey, I just want to say that I have installed trim-tabs on my 170 DC and love them! I have the same power setup as you DF 70, 15 pitch. Now I can plane out at 10-12 mph! It is unreal how much better my boats manners are since the tabs. Now I can adjust any listing isuue due to uneaven loads, push down the bow in rough water, less bounce etc. I could go on all day about trim-tabs on my 170! check out the inst-trim 10x8 for your 170, best investment ever! http://www.insta-trim.com

 

[Troll]

I decided against drilling holes in my motor so my only other viable option was to install trim tabs. I read up on the Nauticus Smart Tabs and purchased a set of the new SX series. These are made of a non metalic material and do not require any maintenance. I called Nauticus at 1-800-233-0194 and Greg told me to get the SX 9510-40 for my 170 Bass. I ordered them on line from Boat Owners World for $119.99 with free shipping. I was able to get the Rule elastomeric sealant from the local West Marine store for about $18. (Note that the color of the tip of the tube is the color of the sealant).

The package was delivered within a week. Installation was simple. I could install them between 3 and 5 inches from the outer edge of the boat. I selected 5" so that I would not have to re-route the transom straps to the trailer. My initial setup was to set the Smart Tabs at hole #3. After running the boat, I found no reason to make any adjustments.

This morning I took the boat to a local lake and was extremely pleased. Out of the hole quickly and on to plane at a much lower speed. Able to maintain plane at a much lower speed and RPM. WOT speed about 2 mph faster and about 50-100 higher RPM. Able to get on plane without resorting to WOT or tilting the motor all the way back down. This should get me better gas milage.

The boat also steered better at speeds above trolling, but at trolling speed it still wondered around. In this one area there was no real improvement.

If anyone else has installed the Nauticus Smart Tabs, please let us know what you think of them.

Troll

 

[joeygumbo]

I would like to start this letter by saying that i am the guy who has hated the way my 170 dc has handled with the 75 4s yamaha ever since I bought it. I have installed a 300 hydrofoil and have enjoyed the improvements of the ride so much that I contacted my dealer and told him he needs to add the hydrofoil to every 170 that he sells with the 4s 75hp. I spent 37 dollars on the hydrofoil and it is worth 3 times that amount in the improvement of boat handling. I now understand what you guys have been saying about triumph having the smoothest ride out there. The handling experience was so bad I even considered selling the boat after 3 months. If you have had any of these issues I am telling you to install a hydrofoil it will definitely be worth it.

 

[jmuduke]

I also am a big hydrofoil guy. I had one on my bass boat to allow me to stay on plane at slower speeds. I had the dealer install one on my 2007 170CC with a 70 HP 2-stroke even though he said I did not need it. I jump on plain and can stay on plain at very low speeds. It helped a lot on the Potomac this weekend, seemed like very boat out there was over 40 feet throwing of a huge wake. The same dealer told me he would not sell a 170CC with a 4-stroke without a hydrofoil.

 

[zeecurt55]

I am glad you guys have seen how the 170's are really meant to ride! I will post some pics of my setup soon!

 

[mvbluefish]

Bms plate

I have had the Bms plate on the 17cc logic for 2 seasons now. Helps the pounding, keeps the bow up and steady, and lets me plane at a little lower rpm's. It did however drop my top speed from 34mph to 31mph with a Honda 50 4 stroke. Overall though well worth doing just for the comfort when it gets sloppy.

 

[woodNfish]

You guys make this much harder than it has to be by calling the True Tracker - Stabilizer Plate, the "BMS plate". Anyone trying to find the "BMS plate" on the web will be out of luck. It is the True Tracker - Stabilizer Plate, and apparently only Bob's Machine Shop has it, but there are other plates out there if you simply search for hydrofoil. You can find them at iboats.com, cabelas, bassproo shops, walmart, etc.

 

[mvbluefish]

BMS = Bob's Machine Shop

As long as you find Bob's, you'll find the foil. This particular model helps slow speed steering drift more so than others. It is also solid metal and very sturdy as well as priced low.

 

[woodNfish]

As long as you find Bob's, you'll find the foil.

That is partially true. The foil is there, but it is called the True Tracker - Stabilizer Plate, not the "BMS plate".

This particular model helps slow speed steering drift more so than others.

Do you have independent data to support that comment? I don't believe you do. I think you have some kind of interest in this particular foil. The other foils also work and from what I've read of people who have installed them, they all cause a loss in top-end speed caused by the higher drag of the foil. I notice on Bob's site they avoid answering that question in their FAQ.

 

[cagrove]

>>As long as you find Bob's, you'll find the foil.

That is partially true. The foil is there, but it is called the True Tracker - Stabilizer Plate, not the "BMS plate".

A Rose is still a Rose...as long as the people communicating understand each other, who cares what it's proper name is?

>>
>>This particular model helps slow speed steering drift more so than others.

Do you have independent data to support that comment? I don't believe you do. I think you have some kind of interest in this particular foil. The other foils also work and from what I've read of people who have installed them, they all cause a loss in top-end speed caused by the higher drag of the foil. I notice on Bob's site they avoid answering that question in their FAQ.

Everything in the boating world (or any other reality or dimension, for that matter) is a matter of trade offs. If you want more control at slower speeds, you trade off a little top end. If you want to go as fast as possible, you trade off a little control at the slower end of the spectrum. There simply is no "perfect" answer.

BTW, there is no need to be confrontational...there is nothing to gain from it. We are all just stating our opinions. If you agree, great. If not, move on...no big deal!

 

[mvbluefish]

No data

I have no affiliation with any marine product or any agenda to have anyone swayed to buying any particular product. I own a Logic 17CC W/ a Honda 50hp that has the Bob's Machine shop metal hydrofoil installed. My opinion can only apply to these products as this is the only boat I have ever owned. I could list the the downsides and upsides to all these brands as they all have both. As a boater of course I have no data to back up any claims as salesman use data, and boaters in chat rooms give opinions. Keep in mind I have not used any other foil so any opinion I have of other foils is based mostly on impressions formed from advice from others. Having said all that, the following is more opinion and conjecture I believe backed up with NO data.
The Bob's Machine Shop Plate or "true tracker" as it is apparently called is of a fairly thick metal construction. The metal has grooves in it which adds a rudder effect to the steering. I guess thats why its called the true tracker. The upside as previously stated is solid construction with zero flex and enhanced slow speed tracking.
The downside is the not so hydrodynamic profile causes loss of top end speed.
Plastic foils are much more thin and hydrodynamic and may be better for top speed performance although the thinner plastic may flex and allow for a more uncomfortable ride. Always in boating there are trade offs and whats right for me is not right for someone else. If top speed is a high priority than the true tracker plate may not be for you, if improved comfort and slower planing speeds are a high priority than maybe it is the plate for you. All of these are impressions I've gotten from my experiences only and may be off base as everyones feel is subjective. My advice; gather many opinions and make an informed decision based on research and your own feelings.