Hey guys with 190 bays or equiv. I am looking to get rid of a couple gas guzzlers and want to know what is the smallest vehicle/engine that any of you use to pull this boat? I currently have a Ford Expedition with 5.6 V8, which does a great job, but 12 mpg is tough on the pocket. I have looked at Toyota Tocoma, Nissan Frontier, and the Explorer Sportrac all with V6-4.0 engines, but don't know whether they can handle the boat. Ford would give me the best trade, but the Sportrac has the lowest hp rating of any of the 3. Most of my travel is Mid-NC to the NC coast, but an occasional trip to the foothills of NC. Any help with this decision would be appreciated. Don
Tow vehicle for 190 Bay?
- Thread starter mudd-mann
- Start date
Cincinnati
Contributing Member
The Explorer Spot Trac is the nicest looking of the bunch and has the right tow rating and crew cab. I would weigh the benefit of downsizing on gas with the cost of changing vehicles. That Expy is a much nicer vehicle for the family! I've got the 04 F150 with the 5.4L crew cab and it is clearly overkill for my 190 Bay. I could tow twice my boat with that truck. But the truck itself is wonderful. What a vehicle!
Dave LeGear
Contributing Member
- City
- What's left of Pine Island
- State
- Florida
I had a 02 Tacoma Pre-Runner 3.3 V6 and pulled our old 03 210 with it. As long as you stayed around 60 and were in no rush (here again it is pretty flat in Florida) it was OK, but took a major hit in gas mileage when towing to around 13.5 MPG. In other words, the point of negative returns from working that small engine so hard to move that 21 footer.
I now have 05 Tundra D cab which as a very small 32 valve VVT V8 (4.7 liter) which does great both in town and when towing for such a large truck. I have tracked every tank of fuel on a spread sheet and average almost 20 on the highway, 17 in town and 15 when towing our 190 bay "if" I stay below 65 (overdrive) on the highway.
I have made the following changes to help get such mileage over the stock truck and they are....
1. I have hard folding bed cover (so I can still see the boat when backing down a boat ramp with the tailgate down) to help clean up the air flow over the bed while on the highway.
2. I have all the windows tinted so the A/C does not work as hard.
3. The truck is white (same reason as #2)
4. K&N air filter installed.
5. And until I get 15k on the engine (broken in at that point) I put in some STP oil treatment (Stay Together Please) every 3k or so even if it is not due for an oil change... After such I will switch it to a Synthetic Oil.
6. I have my tires about 2 to 3 psi higher than what is called for on the door sticker (around 37) to help reduce my rolling resistance.
7. As I stated above, I also track every single tank of fuel burned to see which fuels give me the best ROI (Return on Investment) and found out that the 2 cents per gallon less for the Sam's Club fuel "costs me" more in lower fuel mileage! So unless it is really a lot less per gallon, I pretty much always put in Chevron 87 AND Chevron is the only fuel that goes into my boat due to their superior detergent package (Techron) to help keep everything all nice an clean on the inside.
So I would be careful about changing unless you are going to see some real positive gains and would consider some performace upgrades to your present ride before changing UNLESS you are really due for a new ride like I get every 5 years or so
Dave
I now have 05 Tundra D cab which as a very small 32 valve VVT V8 (4.7 liter) which does great both in town and when towing for such a large truck. I have tracked every tank of fuel on a spread sheet and average almost 20 on the highway, 17 in town and 15 when towing our 190 bay "if" I stay below 65 (overdrive) on the highway.
I have made the following changes to help get such mileage over the stock truck and they are....
1. I have hard folding bed cover (so I can still see the boat when backing down a boat ramp with the tailgate down) to help clean up the air flow over the bed while on the highway.
2. I have all the windows tinted so the A/C does not work as hard.
3. The truck is white (same reason as #2)
4. K&N air filter installed.
5. And until I get 15k on the engine (broken in at that point) I put in some STP oil treatment (Stay Together Please) every 3k or so even if it is not due for an oil change... After such I will switch it to a Synthetic Oil.
6. I have my tires about 2 to 3 psi higher than what is called for on the door sticker (around 37) to help reduce my rolling resistance.
7. As I stated above, I also track every single tank of fuel burned to see which fuels give me the best ROI (Return on Investment) and found out that the 2 cents per gallon less for the Sam's Club fuel "costs me" more in lower fuel mileage! So unless it is really a lot less per gallon, I pretty much always put in Chevron 87 AND Chevron is the only fuel that goes into my boat due to their superior detergent package (Techron) to help keep everything all nice an clean on the inside.
So I would be careful about changing unless you are going to see some real positive gains and would consider some performace upgrades to your present ride before changing UNLESS you are really due for a new ride like I get every 5 years or so
Dave
K&N air filter?
Thanks for the info guys. What's this about the K&N air filter? Is it something that really works to improve gas mileage and will it work on my Expedition?
I just sold my old '87 Chevy pickup and would like a 4 door pickup. That's my main reason for changing rides, but I don't want to do it and not be happy with the change. I have had weak pulling vehicles before and don't want that problem again. The Sportrac would be my first choice, but 205 hp is pretty low. Tacoma has 245 hp. That appears to be enough for the 190, but once you buy it's too late if you're wrong. Don
Thanks for the info guys. What's this about the K&N air filter? Is it something that really works to improve gas mileage and will it work on my Expedition?
I just sold my old '87 Chevy pickup and would like a 4 door pickup. That's my main reason for changing rides, but I don't want to do it and not be happy with the change. I have had weak pulling vehicles before and don't want that problem again. The Sportrac would be my first choice, but 205 hp is pretty low. Tacoma has 245 hp. That appears to be enough for the 190, but once you buy it's too late if you're wrong. Don
Dave LeGear
Contributing Member
- City
- What's left of Pine Island
- State
- Florida
I would equate using the stock air filter to trying to jog with your hand over your mouth... Same goes for the exhaust system, but I like my trucks to stay all nice and quiet and my days of headers and cherry bombs on my off road racer are long gone besides, all that noise just kills the sound of the Smooth Jazz oozing out of my JBL speakers
My wife had a 04 4 runner with the 4.0 V6 and it got as bad or worse MPG as my full sized Tundra. Here again with the 4 Runner, you are dealing with a heavy brick of a truck and an engine that is working hard to move it... She traded hers in for an Access Cab Tundra (this way I could finally have my truck back) and she loves it. She spends about the same for fuel, less for insurance, and has better power to pass... If I could afford such, I would put her in a M1A1 Tank to keep her safe but yes, I feel better knowing that she in riding in just that much more metal surrounding both her and my step daughter.
Really though it is bottom end torque and not horse power that moves weight. The MPG advantage of the Toyota V8 is its small displacement, but it has variable valve timing and 32 valves to make up for the fewer cubic inches. We also have to remember that with the bigger trucks come bigger brakes (one of your limits on towing weights) and even though the 190 is not huge, bringing it all to a whoa in a panic stop is both quicker and safer with full sized brakes doing all the work.
Now you can install a K&N Filter on pretty much any engine, but I would not do such if you are going to trade it in. The critical thing though is to "track" your fuel burn rates to see if the money you are spending for both fuel and engine improvements is giving you any returns? For even if it is tiny 1/10th of a gallon increase then in time, that change will pay for it's self in better performance. Now I have a spread sheet I can send to you that does all of its own running calculations of you need one.
Dave
My wife had a 04 4 runner with the 4.0 V6 and it got as bad or worse MPG as my full sized Tundra. Here again with the 4 Runner, you are dealing with a heavy brick of a truck and an engine that is working hard to move it... She traded hers in for an Access Cab Tundra (this way I could finally have my truck back) and she loves it. She spends about the same for fuel, less for insurance, and has better power to pass... If I could afford such, I would put her in a M1A1 Tank to keep her safe but yes, I feel better knowing that she in riding in just that much more metal surrounding both her and my step daughter.
Really though it is bottom end torque and not horse power that moves weight. The MPG advantage of the Toyota V8 is its small displacement, but it has variable valve timing and 32 valves to make up for the fewer cubic inches. We also have to remember that with the bigger trucks come bigger brakes (one of your limits on towing weights) and even though the 190 is not huge, bringing it all to a whoa in a panic stop is both quicker and safer with full sized brakes doing all the work.
Now you can install a K&N Filter on pretty much any engine, but I would not do such if you are going to trade it in. The critical thing though is to "track" your fuel burn rates to see if the money you are spending for both fuel and engine improvements is giving you any returns? For even if it is tiny 1/10th of a gallon increase then in time, that change will pay for it's self in better performance. Now I have a spread sheet I can send to you that does all of its own running calculations of you need one.
Dave
Lazy Loafer
Registered Member
- City
- Hammonton
Just my 2 cents, and I will avoid getting complicated with the pros and cons of modifying and/or switching vehicles for the purpose of enhancing fuel efficiency. I pull my '03 190 Bay with a 1987 Dodge Dakota SE P/U, 2WD, equipped with a 3.9L V6, rated, as best and can tell at 125HP. The truck certainly is no powerhouse, and its mpg while towing is little concern since the distance from home to the ramp is only 20 miles. All I can say is that it pulls the 190 adequately along 2 lane blacktop on flatland (I live in southern NJ) and on the Garden State Parkway at 60 mph. I come up the ramp out of the water without problem. I do sense that if I were to try to climb hills that everyone following me would be cursing that sob in the front who was holding them back. For me getting a new tow vehicle was a non-issue. I had the truck already-low mileage at 50,000-and could afford only one thing. Either I buy a new truck or a new boat, and of course there was only one answer to that question since the truck runs fine and didn't need replacing.
k9reno
Recognized Leader and K9 Guru
- City
- Punta Gorda
- State
- Florida
My first tow vehicle was an explorer sport trac. I was pulling a 210cc with 1/2 tank fuel and fishing equip. I towed over 6000 miles the frist yr with it and had no problems. I had to work a little in the mountains in WV and NC and that one monster incline in Tenn. but it did get the job done. The main reason I moved up to an F150 supercrew V8 was that I wanted the truck to be my last tow vehicle and I didnt think the tranny would have the needed life span pullin my 210. I dont know the exact weight differnace but I dont think you should have any problem with the 190 bay.
Cincinnati
Contributing Member
k9reno said:
Well there you go - someone who actually pulled a bigger boat with the Spot Trac. Any gas mileage stats on that Reno?
k9reno
Recognized Leader and K9 Guru
- City
- Punta Gorda
- State
- Florida
Unbelievably I get the same milage with the boat on with both vehicles. I got an average of 10 mpg with both pulling at the speed limit and that includes climbing mountains. The milage was not near what I had hoped for or what I hear people talking about. If Icould afford to do it again I would porbably try an F250 superduty deisel
Cincinnati
Contributing Member
That more or less confirms what I've read - that a smaller motor working harder uses just as much gas as a bigger one working less.
Dave LeGear
Contributing Member
- City
- What's left of Pine Island
- State
- Florida
Attached to this note is the 1 Excel 2003 spread sheet that I created to track fuel burn rates in my Truck. Nothing really fancy (Excel training class project) but as you get 10 or more entries you should should start to see a much better picture of which brands of fuel give you your greatest ROI (Return on Investment) for the money you spent.
Just remember these 2 things which really help when using the Truck sheet is...
1. The drop down window for driving type has a lot of possible selections, so remember such for when you are "Towing with the A/C on" for example.
2. The comments section is also important for notation of your oil changes, upgrades and even small notations like "found tire presse low by 3 pounds" will give you a good overall performance picture in time.
Combined with this web site http://www.gasbuddy.com/ you will save money in the long run by using them and remember, that the cheapest fuel per gallon may NOT save you money if your engine burns more of it in the process... These sheets will prove that over time, and you should find which of your local brands and octane rating works best in "your" engine.
Any questions on using it just let me know
Just remember these 2 things which really help when using the Truck sheet is...
1. The drop down window for driving type has a lot of possible selections, so remember such for when you are "Towing with the A/C on" for example.
2. The comments section is also important for notation of your oil changes, upgrades and even small notations like "found tire presse low by 3 pounds" will give you a good overall performance picture in time.
Combined with this web site http://www.gasbuddy.com/ you will save money in the long run by using them and remember, that the cheapest fuel per gallon may NOT save you money if your engine burns more of it in the process... These sheets will prove that over time, and you should find which of your local brands and octane rating works best in "your" engine.
Any questions on using it just let me know
AstroDiver
Contributing Member
- City
- Menlo
- State
- GA
Tow truck
I started with a white Toyota Tacoma V-6 with about 150K miles on it towing my Logic 186 a couple of years ago. It did OK as mentioned. It was not a road burner with the load but I got decent mileage if I kept the speed down around 55-60 MPH.
I now use a 2005 Tundra D cab V-8 that is also white to keep me and the ferrets cooler.
Putershark, K7N has finally released a Performance Intake Kit for our trucks, part # 77-902KP and an Air Charger unit #63-9027. I have been running the K&N filter since I got my truck last November. Also, Banks has an exhaust system for our trucks too.
What ever you decide to buy, look into a K&N filter or one of the intake systems that replaces the air filter box for better breathing.
I don't think Toyota has released the Supercharger system for the '05 yet.
I still have the Tacoma, 204+K miles.
I started with a white Toyota Tacoma V-6 with about 150K miles on it towing my Logic 186 a couple of years ago. It did OK as mentioned. It was not a road burner with the load but I got decent mileage if I kept the speed down around 55-60 MPH.
I now use a 2005 Tundra D cab V-8 that is also white to keep me and the ferrets cooler.
Putershark, K7N has finally released a Performance Intake Kit for our trucks, part # 77-902KP and an Air Charger unit #63-9027. I have been running the K&N filter since I got my truck last November. Also, Banks has an exhaust system for our trucks too.
What ever you decide to buy, look into a K&N filter or one of the intake systems that replaces the air filter box for better breathing.
I don't think Toyota has released the Supercharger system for the '05 yet.
I still have the Tacoma, 204+K miles.
AstroDiver
Contributing Member
- City
- Menlo
- State
- GA
Addition
Both of my Toyotas are 4x4's. The Tundra has 'E' rated tires on them and I keep them pumped up. 60# rear & 50# front. See, I carry a slide in camper in the bed of my Tundra and I need the higher rated tires.
Both of my Toyotas are 4x4's. The Tundra has 'E' rated tires on them and I keep them pumped up. 60# rear & 50# front. See, I carry a slide in camper in the bed of my Tundra and I need the higher rated tires.
MolarBoater
Contributing Member
- City
- Mountian Brook
I used a 2001 4x4 Tahoe with the smaller vortec V8 1500?and seemed to get fair gas milage. Without towing it would push 20mpg on hiway and with premium gas would tow very well but down to about @14 mpg 65mph. My 2005 Z71 Avalanche 1500 gets average now of 18.0 mpg 87 octane cheap gas but down to maybe@12mpg towing 65-70mph. Heavier vehicle, but better geared as well as much better brakes, even the emergency brakes work, think it has a higher tow rating by 2000lbs too, built on suburban chasis.
Gas was better with Tahoe with street tires and occasional towing, Avalanche more of a tow vehicle with the transmission geared toward that, more truck like acceleration but very comfortable on the road.
I have no idea what I would get next with the gas prices like they are....maybe wait 3 more years and see what miracles have occured by then with gasoline engines or going back to diseal trucks for the milage. Possibly get a micro car to drive and leave the truck hooked up to the boat.
Gas was better with Tahoe with street tires and occasional towing, Avalanche more of a tow vehicle with the transmission geared toward that, more truck like acceleration but very comfortable on the road.
I have no idea what I would get next with the gas prices like they are....maybe wait 3 more years and see what miracles have occured by then with gasoline engines or going back to diseal trucks for the milage. Possibly get a micro car to drive and leave the truck hooked up to the boat.
thanks for the help
Looks like I'm heading for the 4 cyl. knockaround vehicle and keep the Expedition hooked to the boat too. Looked into trading and got insulted several times with the trade-in value. Nobody wants a large V8 sitting on the lot. I got burned one time with a 6 cyl. Ford that was supposed to be a tow vehicle and until I changed the rear end I couldn't pull the boat out of the water. So, until I can afford to change to an 'improved' tow truck that will get better mileage, I guess I will stick with the gas hog that I know will do the job.
Putershark.... thanks for all the tips and spreadsheets. I'm going to give them a try and maybe enough improvements can be made that will make the Expedition more affordable. Don
Looks like I'm heading for the 4 cyl. knockaround vehicle and keep the Expedition hooked to the boat too. Looked into trading and got insulted several times with the trade-in value. Nobody wants a large V8 sitting on the lot. I got burned one time with a 6 cyl. Ford that was supposed to be a tow vehicle and until I changed the rear end I couldn't pull the boat out of the water. So, until I can afford to change to an 'improved' tow truck that will get better mileage, I guess I will stick with the gas hog that I know will do the job.
Putershark.... thanks for all the tips and spreadsheets. I'm going to give them a try and maybe enough improvements can be made that will make the Expedition more affordable. Don
Dave LeGear
Contributing Member
- City
- What's left of Pine Island
- State
- Florida
Don,
Buddy you are more than welcome and remember that the biggest and the most "Cost Effective" (meaning zero dollar spent) MPG improvement you can make to any automobile, is to improve one's driving habbits.
Remember that once the Truck is moving (no matter how slow) is to keep her moving... If the light up ahead cannot be made, then start coasting... No need to burn up brake pads or empty fuel tanks trying to make lights. The don't walk lights will (in most places) flash 10 times before the light turns yellow, so already you have a built in timer and after a while, your mind will start counting those flashes even though you are not really looking at the sign and will KNOW if you need to start coasting or speed up.
In other words, always drive as if you are towing the boat and need longer times to both stop, and speed up. In a nutshell, it takes 2/3 more energy to get something moving than to KEEP it moving.
I also plan my trip to work not on the fastest main drag routes that have a lot of lights, and mostly run side streets at a slower 35 mph and usually manage to hit the lights all green IF I stay at certian speeds AND still get to the office at the same time! That was someting I learned many, many, moons ago as a kid when I riding a Moped as the cars passed me in town BUT I then passed them again at the next light never once hitting the brakes!
Dave
Buddy you are more than welcome and remember that the biggest and the most "Cost Effective" (meaning zero dollar spent) MPG improvement you can make to any automobile, is to improve one's driving habbits.
Remember that once the Truck is moving (no matter how slow) is to keep her moving... If the light up ahead cannot be made, then start coasting... No need to burn up brake pads or empty fuel tanks trying to make lights. The don't walk lights will (in most places) flash 10 times before the light turns yellow, so already you have a built in timer and after a while, your mind will start counting those flashes even though you are not really looking at the sign and will KNOW if you need to start coasting or speed up.
In other words, always drive as if you are towing the boat and need longer times to both stop, and speed up. In a nutshell, it takes 2/3 more energy to get something moving than to KEEP it moving.
I also plan my trip to work not on the fastest main drag routes that have a lot of lights, and mostly run side streets at a slower 35 mph and usually manage to hit the lights all green IF I stay at certian speeds AND still get to the office at the same time! That was someting I learned many, many, moons ago as a kid when I riding a Moped as the cars passed me in town BUT I then passed them again at the next light never once hitting the brakes!
Dave
Dave LeGear
Contributing Member
- City
- What's left of Pine Island
- State
- Florida
You are very welcome,
I have used them for quite a few years and found out a lot of things by using them. How even the smallest changes in the simple things like low tire pressure can return positive results.
Maybe if we get enough of the guys and gals to use them we can start to compare results, and get a better cross section of data so all of us can save a few bucks. When you start too see just how much it cost per mile to run your truck (or car) one starts to make better choices on trips or getting stuff on the way home or as I say "Economy in Movement" that if nothing, leaves more money in my wallet to put into the Boat's fuel tank
So if you would like to see some changes or inprovements to the sheets, just let me know and I will try and recode them for you...
Dave
I have used them for quite a few years and found out a lot of things by using them. How even the smallest changes in the simple things like low tire pressure can return positive results.
Maybe if we get enough of the guys and gals to use them we can start to compare results, and get a better cross section of data so all of us can save a few bucks. When you start too see just how much it cost per mile to run your truck (or car) one starts to make better choices on trips or getting stuff on the way home or as I say "Economy in Movement" that if nothing, leaves more money in my wallet to put into the Boat's fuel tank
So if you would like to see some changes or inprovements to the sheets, just let me know and I will try and recode them for you...
Dave
Dave LeGear
Contributing Member
- City
- What's left of Pine Island
- State
- Florida
Sorry guys,
I found out tonight when making some entries into the Boat Fuel Burn Rate Sheet that "was" posted in this thread, my functions (formulas many know them as) math was wrong The one for the truck is fine though, and has worked great for me for many years so that is still OK
I will start another thread and include the New and Improved Boat Fuel Burn rate sheet (never professed to be a CPA) just as soon as I finish updating my template here in the next hour or so
Rest assured though that the the math is now correct (I feel like NASA when they slammed that probe into Mars over a simple math conversion programming error) and you should be able to use it in the future with little problems...
Dave
I found out tonight when making some entries into the Boat Fuel Burn Rate Sheet that "was" posted in this thread, my functions (formulas many know them as) math was wrong
The one for the truck is fine though, and has worked great for me for many years so that is still OK I will start another thread and include the New and Improved Boat Fuel Burn rate sheet (never professed to be a CPA
) just as soon as I finish updating my template here in the next hour or so Rest assured though that the the math is now correct (I feel like NASA when they slammed that probe into Mars over a simple math conversion programming error) and you should be able to use it in the future with little problems...
Dave