The Lowrance NMEA 2000 Fuel Management System, WOW!

[jergofish]

I purchased the Lowrance 337c GPS/Sonar system for my 215. As an accessory I also purchased the EP 10 fuel sensor. The installation was simple, cut the fuel hose, fit in the sensor with the arrow pointing in the right direction and put on the hose clamps. Plug the cable into the NMEA 2000 system and turn on the fuel management module on the GPS/Sonar.

I now know my fuel consumption as I'm motoring and know exactly how much fuel is left in the tank to the tenth of a gallon. It's fairly simple to operate and would be even simpler if Lowrance thought to include the instructions in their 337c GPS/Sonar instruction manual. Instead I had to fumble around with menus and enters and exits until I could make sense of the whole thing. A lot more options are available including averaging, economy, usage per trip, usage per season but without a manual I haven't figured out how to use them all. I've written Lowrance and am waiting for a reply, hopefully with a set of instructions on the programming of the system.

However, other than that complaint, when I see my fuel gauge sloshing from quarter tank to three quarter tank while under way, it's comforting to know how much fuel I have in the tank down to the tenth of a gallon. The best part of the deal is that the fuel sensor is only $49 at Cabela's.

 

[woodNfish]

Hi Jergofish,

I know this is a bit late for a reply, but Lowrance has all their manuals online so you can download them to your computer. They are pdf files. They also have simulators of most of their sonars and gps units so yo can learn how to use them on your computer. They mostly work pretty good and you can play wih the menus and work the buttons, etc.

I have the same unit you have on my console and an x67c on my bow. The gps functio is so-so. I bought their fishing elite maps for the northeast only to discover that they don't even have the major lakes here in New Hampshire, and their topo maps are worthless for the water. If I had to do it again I'd probably look at a different company to see how they compare.

That said, I do like the sonar.

Good fishing,

woodnfish

 

[AstroDiver]

I'd like to get a fuel monitoring unit to see what my consumption is. GPH or milage. All the units I seen in the catalogs are in the $400 range.
All of my electronis are Garmin except for the radio.

 

[jergofish]

I figured out the Fuel management system by trial and error. I absolutely love it. I can't imagine operating the boat without it I NEVER wonder how much fuel is in the tank and know to the tenth of a gallon.

Funny, I find the Navionics maps of the west coast and Mexico excellent! In Mulege we laughed because the charts did not always correspond to the GPS location but were within a mile or so of being correct. Here in Northern California the charts are so accurate that little clumps of tules in the river are actually marked.

The 200 mhz sounder is great but I wonder since no matter how much I dial out sensitivity I seem to be charting fish under the boat and I can't believe there are THAT many fish. I've found the 50mhz sounder to be pretty much worthless and probably wouldn't have bothered to spend the extra $50 for that capability.

 

[woodNfish]

Hi again jergofish,

I'm sure the Navionics maps are good, they are third party and not from Lowrance - they are also offshore saltwater maps. The only freshwater maps Navionics does are the great lakes. The maps I bought "Fishing Hotspots Elite" are lake maps. The lakes they do have are accurate - it is just very strange that they don't have the major lakes in New Hampshire. I guess I should be happy though - there is only one lake for all of Massachusetts in the charts.

The 337 comes with the dual sonar and I am not aware that you can purchase it any other way. The manual mentions when the 50khz sensor is useful, but I don't remember offhand when that is. I only use the 200 khz as well.

I looked through the fuel sensor manual and there is no info on how to use it with any of the sonar units. That figures. I've found that Lowrance's tech support isn't very good either - they don't even know the features of their own products.

I suppose I could spend my time worrying about all this, but I'd rather go fishing.

woodNfish

 

[jergofish]

Lowrance Tech Support

While I have the 337 with the dual transducer, the 332 comes with only the 200mhz and is $49 less.

On Lowrance Tech Support:

While in Mexico my through the water speed sensor started acting up.

It finally quit and I sent Lowrance an e-mail describing the problem. No response.

I waited a week and then sent a second e-mail mentioning that this was my second attempt at contact. I received an e-mail within 24 hours asking that I phone because of the possible outcomes to the problem.

When I returned to the U.S. I called (armed with my case number assigned in the second e-mail.) The wait time was about 12 minutes, not bad for a major company.

After a quick chat (really nice guy!) we both came to the same conclusion that the sensor was probably at fault. Rather than have me return the entire unit, Lowrance mailed a new sensor and also issued a MRA should the new sensor not fix the problem. If uncorrected with the new part I was to ship main unit, old part and replacement part back to Lowrance.

The telephone tech said estimated repair time was two weeks if I had to ship the units.

I keep my boat berthed so I haven't been able to put on the new unit to see if it's the fix but I was appreciative that Lowrance was willing to ship the part as a fix rather than require me to return the whole unit.

I'd rate their service at least equal to most of the marine parts dealers. None of which seem to give blistering quick service.

By the way, I now have almost 2000 miles on the boat and over 160 hours on the engine since my delivery date, May 27. The fuel management system to me is a MUST!

The boat and engine have performed flawlessly with the exception of the pure gasoline in Mexico being much richer than the gasahol we pump here in California, causing the engine to run rough on start up. I would have thought that the computer chips in the the engine would have corrected the fuel/air mixture to accomodate the pure gasoline.

 

[Dave LeGear]

The boat and engine have performed flawlessly with the exception of the pure gasoline in Mexico being much richer than the gasahol we pump here in California, causing the engine to run rough on start up. I would have thought that the computer chips in the the engine would have corrected the fuel/air mixture to accomodate the pure gasoline.

That is a classic description of a "cold" start problem... Cold you say? yes... Here is the possible cause. You are starting to get deposits building up on the back side of the intake valves. These carbon deposits when cold soak up fuel. So when you turn the key on and it reads the warmer air temps from being further south, the ECU (like a choke of days past) does not dump in very much fuel for starting and some of what is dumped, is soaked up by the those carbon deposits. The problem goes away as the engine warms up and the carbon becomes as hard as a rock, but I have seen cases of the engines starting and stalling out many times till that temperature was reached from all the carbon build up... How to fix such well you have several options

1. Move to Canada since the ECU will pretty much always dump in enough fuel for starting in such conditions (too funny I know)
2. Remove the slowly building carbon deposits through the use of fuel additives. I recommend using Techron in clean up version bottle dumped right into the fuel. http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/fuels/additives/concentrate_plus.shtml and have always had good success with using this product. Yamaha markets the same product, but calls it "Ring Free" and works well on both 2 (though in different areas) and 4 stroke engines.

Carbon though builds up inside your engine that have been using lower quality detergent fuels. When you shut the engine down, fuel "boils" away it leaves these deposits behind... This is why I only use high grade detergent fuels in both my truck and will only run Chevron fuel in my boat engine with it many times being 93 octane just because it is so hot outside. Engine Octane requirements is a different subject matter altogether

One other thing you can have checked, is the operation of the fuel injection system by the dealer to make sure all the sensors are working per design spec... The ECU though does NOT have the ability to compensate for carbon build up since no sensor to date can measure such... The EPA regulates engine builders to meet certain emission levels after so many seconds of start up, and usually the builders will set them even a little leaner just to make sure it will past those test... So even smaller amounts of carbon build up on the valves can have such effects even on marginal days. Also remember that the more intake valves you have on your engine, the more surface area you have to "grow" such carbon. This so a 8 valve 4 cylinder engine, may not show the same effects as fast, as say 16 valve 4 cylinder might

Hope this helps?

 

[jergofish]

Putershark, I read your post and I don't think that was the problem although the symptoms match with the exception of:

1. I went to Mexico with only ten gallons in the tank and filled it up (60 gallons more) when down there. Up until that time the engine would idle forever and smoothly even at start up when running on California gasohol.

2. The problem occureed immediatly on the first start up in Mexico. I had about a 20 minute run in very shallow water to get out of the bay and it had to be done at idle. The engine died repeatedly as soon as the new fuel reached the engine, about five minutes into the run. It also smoked heavily until warm. It did so the entire month and a half I was down there, running fine after warm up including idle (although sometimes smokey).

3. Upon return to the U.S. and back on gasohol the problem went immediatly away!

4. My top end in Mexico was 5400RPM on straight gasoline while I can hit 5900RPM in California on gasohol.

I thought it might be an octane thing but neither my truck or my marine engine seemed to ping because of the Mexican gasoline although both had less power and higher fuel consumption per RPM. My truck did not have idling problems and didn't appear to be smoking at idle.

 

[Dave LeGear]

Your chances of hearing it knock would be slim for a soon as it does (many times well below what you would hear) the ECU backs off the timing about 5 degrees (pending on the computer program mapping) and then tries to bring it up a 10th of a degree till it starts to knock again.

Gashol by nature though, is a higher octane level of fuel due to the blend of the 2 liquids so no shock to me that you burn less of it. Just put a little alcohol on your hand and you can feel the cooling effect... The higher the octane number though, the more stable the fuel, thus the ECU can give the engine more timing which quite simply... Equates to more power

You also have to remember that modern engines are making adjustments to timing about 10 times a second. So even little changes in fuel quality, air temp, humidity, altitude and air fuel mixture are all being taken into play when those adjustments are being made... Cool stuff (programming I would like to learn) and why we can ring out so much power out of such little displacement engines

 

[jergofish]

Cool, so putting everything you told me into my overhead mixer, what's coming out is that the Mexican gas was probably just not refined to U.S. standards, (i.e. almost like it had some #2 diesel mixed in) and that it was more evident in the small high performance Suzuki rather than the V8 in my Ford truck.

That poor quality resulted in poor performance, lower gas mileage and rough running on a cold engine along with smoking.

It sounds like I should stock up on Techron when I'm heading to Mexico so that I at least increase the cleaning qualities of the gas I'm running through the engine and maybe experiement with octane booster additives as well. I burned about 400 gallons of gas while down there so that's a significant amount of additives I'll have to stock up on before venturing south next summer.

 

[Dave LeGear]

I would agree, but I would just run a bottle of Techron in every couple of tanks. Most times 3 tanks in a row will clean up pretty much any level of deposits one would have, but with the size of a boat fuel tank, that can get expensive also...

The other thing to take into account is where is all that carbon going? Well some of it will make its way into the oil sump, and carbon is not something very soft you want running though your engine's oil system. Kind of like dumping in some sand to run around in your engine's oil system would make for a good comparison So I would watch how clean the oil is staying, and maybe doing a oil change after using a heavy couple of dozes in a "row" of Techron. Here again, many factors come into play, but oil is a pretty cheap insurance against such possible accelerated wear and tear...

If you keep the engine clean, your octane requirements will be lower or as designed. As that carbon builds up on the various surfaces though (mostly piston crowns) it can boot engine compression ratios out of design specs, and force the use of (one way or another) higher octane fuels... If not or you don't hear such knocks (which is hard on any outboard engine above idle) the ECU will hear the knocking and back off the timing for you. Then you apply more throttle (burn more fuel) for the same amount of work and may not even be aware of such. Vicious circle for sure....


I say this because you may not need to buy any octane boosters if everything is kept as clean as possible inside the engine. When designed and all this cool programming is made, the engine is in a test lab running in premo condations and more important, engine deposits are next to nil. So tracking fuel burn rates in the spread sheets that are posted (use the search tool to find them) will go a long way in watching such. Over time, you will start too see trends as to which fuel brands you buy and the octane grades used will give you your best ROI (return on investment) which at 3 dollars a gallon it IS now an investment

 

[SubmersibleGeek]

NMEA 2000 Fuel management system question

I was looking at the Floscan fuel management system when I came across the Lowrance one. I looked very cool so its great to hear come first hand knowledge that matches my suspicions. Unfortunately, I already have a Humminbird combo GPS/Sounder unit so I won't be changing anytime soon.

Lowrance has a multi-function gauge (have something like 14 different screen you can view bepending on the sensors installed. Everything from tank levels to trim tab position...way cool.) The question is does anyone know if I can run the multi gauge off a NMEA 2000 network without a lowrance head unit. I went to the Lowrance website for info and it send me to a local dealer (West Marine) and they couldn't help. If anyone has an info or know a good dealer that I could call with some questions that would be awesome.

 

[wpschaef]

Lowrance guage.

Hey Sub, while doing the research on my Lowrance hookup to my Yamaha, I came across the Yamaha multi guages. Yamaha doesn't exactly condone the Lowrance hookup as yet but I saw that the multi guage could run straight off the NMEA network instead of having to hook directly to the motor. you probably will have to hook the motor to the network. You might also call the Lowrance tech support for more info. I didn't find their website very usefull untill I had more info. Good luck.

 

[SubmersibleGeek]

Biff,

Thanks I took your lead and looked into it for my Suzuki. Turns out I can get an adapter to kook the motor to the network and with a Lowrance multigauge (LMF-400) can get ALL of the motor data including trip fuel consumption, tachometer, alternator voltage, engine temperature, engine oil pressure, engine hours, fuel flow, fuel economy, fuel used, trip fuel used, seasonal fuel used, engine trim position, and engine alarms and warnings.


Here's the link for the multigauge.

http://www.lowrance.com/en/Products/Marine/Digital-Gauges/LMF-400/Specifications/

 

[wpschaef]

Problems

Hey Sub, sorry, the link didn't work. I thought I would tell ya'll that since I have hooked up my Yamaha to my Lowrance, my GPS antennae doesn't work.It just keeps looking unsuccesfully for satelites it never finds. I sent the antennae back to the factory and they confirmed it wasn't working correctly. They sent a new one and it worked after I installed it in my driveway so I thought I was good to go. Went striper fishing yesterday, no GPS again, basically as soon as the motor started. My GPS shuts off when my motor starts and has to be restarted every time. Big pain. I am hoping this is the cause but unless the antennae is more susceptible to the voltage drain problem than the other components, which didn't show up before, there is a problem from the engine cabling that again the antennae is more easily damaged for some reason. That is the only change I have made. I have checked the networking numerous times and if I had hair I would be pulling it out. It will be a week or more before I get an answer and I may have to send my whole unit and antennae in this time so probably no fishing until it's back.

 

[wpschaef]

Update

Welllllllll, I spent about 45 min on hold today waiting for Lowrance techs and the upshot is that they are going to send me a new antennae with a postage paid label to return the second one. BUT, they also stated catagorically that the antennae should be no closer than 3 ft from the display head. Gonna be kinda tricky fingering that one out. The way it sits now it's only 1ft away. If I blow this antennae up I have to send in the whole unit AND the entire network for diagnosis. Hope it works this time 'cause that would be a major pain. Hoping to get some help from my dealer on the relocation since they installed the unit on the new boat in Feb.

 

[SubmersibleGeek]

45 minutes on hold, that's about standard for anything involving customer service in this day and age. If it can't be done from an automated line its gonna be a while. At least the only thing its costing thus far is time.

As for the relocation, don't know if this will help but my first boat had one of those anchor lights on a metal pole that you inserted into a connection on the corner of the transom. Maybe the GPS can be mounted on a pole with an network extension cable running through the center. When you need GPS just plug into the network and insert the pole in a stand. Just a thought for giving the dealer something to start with, I remeber where they mounted your fishfinder the first time.

 

[wpschaef]

Update

All righty then, I think the situation may be handled. I've been out twice now without killing another antennae. I am on the 4th antennae and the last time sent both the head and the blown antennae in. They replaced the antennae and did a "repair" to the head. The Antennae has been moved onto a pole coming off the console rail, the network power has been removed from the display head and put through a fuse block from the battery/main power switch with it's own fuse and on/off switch after the fuse block. The reason for the power node addition replacing the display head output is that the factory believes that the engine interface may have been the cause of the damage to the head which may have been blowing the antennaes. All very non-committal but it seems to be working.

I then have reconnected the engine interface and reset the display to show the data. All seems to work well and it is great to be able to display mpg, gph, etc. on a real time basis.

I also have integrated my Uniden DSC radio to the NMEA 1830 (?) network output and set the internal parameters in the Lowrance unit as instructed.

On the plus side, I have been forced to do some upgrading of my electrical system. I may do some more later.
This should end my part of this thread. I guess if needed I can always revisit it, I'll answer any questions ya'll have if I can....