Fuel

[BarrNone]

I know this subject comes up about this time every year but stil don't know which to do. The question is do I leave the fuel tank full or run it out? I'm still hearing it both ways and still don't know what to believe.

 

[slider99]

It depends on how long it's going to be stored. I know that gas starts to go bad after a month or so, but with the stabilizer it extends that for much longer. I have a '67 MG that I only drive in the summer, when it's time to put it away for the winter I just park it. 3 or 4 months later I put the battery back in it and it starts right up. Been doing this for 30 years. I guess it depends on how long it's stored. As long there isn't moisture in the tank, it should be good for a few months. I just brought ours home from the lake yesterday (was going to go out for one last ride, but it was 30 out and was snowing) it has a half a tank in it, I've added the stabilizer and the fuel has been run through the engine. I don't want to drain 30 gallons out and don't want to put 30 in either. Our storage time is only 2 months at best though. Just my opinion.

 

[pamarine]

Since ethanol is hydrophilic (attracts water) and boat fuel tanks are vented to the atmosphere (unlike an automobile), it is best to drain the tank for long-term storage. Second of course is a full tank (to at least reduce condensation, but it still will attract free water in the fuel), and least desirable is a partially-filled tank (condensation is an issue due to the changing temperature in the air space relative to the temperature of the fuel).

 

[slider99]

What about plugging the vent for storage? As well as the stabilizer and that ethanol fuel enzyme additive?

 

[fridaysoff]

What Pamarine said. I keep my tank full and always use ring free and Startron. I belive the less room for condensation theory. It's worked for me so far since ethanol was shoved down our fuel tanks.

 

[Dave LeGear]

Put some Startron Star Tron Enzyme Fuel Treatment - HOME in it and then fill her up with some high octane quality fuel like Chevron and you should be fine.

I would also consider pending the temps naturally, running the engine on the hose or with the outboard lowered down in a trough fill with some coolant so it does not freeze, and let he idle for long enough to bring it up to FOT (Full Operating Temperature) to help keep everything turned over every month or so

 

[pamarine]

What about plugging the vent for storage? As well as the stabilizer and that ethanol fuel enzyme additive?

Plugging the vent isn't advisable as doing so will cause your fuel system to pressurise with temperature changes (marine fuel delivery systems are designed to operate at ambient pressure).

As for additives, even the most optimistic recommendations only allow for 3 months. You can find a full explanation by searching "ethanol" posts by pamarine.


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[Dave LeGear]

I disagree, the issue here is with the water in the fuel and not the fuel its self.

Quality fuel will store longer and still hold its combustion qualities past 3 months. We have to remember that the lower temps and air moisture up North is much lower than here in the Swamps of Dixie which only helps that condition and not make it worse. Though here of late, with all this "Global Warming" again that is forcing me to turn on the heat in the house and leave the bath tub full after taking a shower to not only help heat up the house, but put some much needed moisture back into the air... I can't see the air holding much moisture right now to really worry about! Ha-Ha...

So now you need to circle back to the other part of this puzzle which is fuel filters / water separators and "snag" what moisture is left setting at the bottom of the tank in the fuel that is headed to engine, and then drain them off on a more frequent basis

 

[pamarine]

I disagree, the issue here is with the water in the fuel and not the fuel its self.

Quality fuel will store longer and still hold its combustion qualities past 3 months. We have to remember that the lower temps and air moisture up North is much lower than here in the Swamps of Dixie which only helps that condition and not make it worse. Though here of late, with all this "Global Warming" again that is forcing me to turn on the heat in the house and leave the bath tub full after taking a shower to not only help heat up the house, but put some much needed moisture back into the air... I can't see the air holding much moisture right now to really worry about! Ha-Ha...

So now you need to circle back to the other part of this puzzle which is fuel filters / water separators and "snag" what moisture is left setting at the bottom of the tank in the fuel that is headed to engine, and then drain them off on a more frequent basis

Partially. You're correct that the isn't so much the breakdown of the gasoline.

However, our fuels aren't just gasoline. They are a suspension of ethanol in gasoline. And like all suspensions evenyltually it will settle out. This settling, which can begin in as little as two weeks, has necome the limiting factor in fuel storage lengths, not the chemistry of the gasoline as with non-blended fuels.

In fact, it is this free ethanol that is the biggest concern, as free ethanol is what will attract water (remember, this very chemical used to be sold as a "water absorber" for fuel). What then happens is below the layer of gasoline is a slug of ethanol and water, and since the fuel pickup is near the bottom of the fuel tank, it ia this slug that is first sent through the fuel system to the engine.

Where additives like star-tron come into play is that in addition to stabilising the chemistry of the gasolinr, they help keep the ethanol in suspension. By combining star-tron with an traditonal stabilzer like sta-bil, we can realistically expect to delay the settling out process by approximately 3 months in quality fuel blends.

By the way, the time table is from a rathet extensive conversation with star-brite concerning this very subject.

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[pamarine]

Oh, you also reminded me of one of the other headaches ethanol causes. Since ethanol is hydrophilic, free ethanol actually reduces the effectiveness of water-separating filters. The reason it was used as an absorber was to break doen the water in fuel to allow it to pass through the engine easily and be burned without overwhelming a filter.

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[Harper]

The Startron additive has been mentioned herein, but I'm curious to know what the opinions are out there of the blue Sta-bil additive. The ethanol is new to Texas fuels. Even most of our corner gas stations were ethanol-free until this year, and of course, now our "protectors" have mandated ethanol in the marine fuels, too. Many folks here have had major damage to their fuel systems lately, but I attribute that to many years of ethanol free systems being suddenly scrubbed of deposits by the ethanol, subsequently clogging injectors. I'm hoping not to have the problems that I've seen lately, since I've only gone through barely one tank of fuel since the boat was new. I keep my tank full, but then down here, the boat's not idle for very long.

 

[Push&Pull]

Here's the lowdown on Ethanol fuel in simple terms. It will remove deposits, which will clog filters. It will disolve some rubbers and plastics. It will degrade some aluminum. It will absorb more water and directly from the atmosphere. And it will phase separate. Additives will only delay the phase separation and will do nothing once it does separate. When separation occurs.....nothing will work except draining the fuel and disposal. It's cr**. I hate it. It's a pain....... There's no way around it except to use your fuel more quickly. At the present, it has caused me real headaches and I'm presently in the process of devising some sort of system to more easily drain my fuel tank completely or at least the very bottom portion on a regular basis.

Added note: I don't store my boat, so I don't actually do a layup procedure. And there are several opinions on which method is better. But if it were me I would completely drain the fuel tank and all the lines in the engine. And I mean completely. As in remove the fuel gauge sending unit and suck out every last drop. If you fill the tank, it will get water in it, no matter what. And half full is completely out of the question. And almost empty will tend to leave the remaining water and allow for more to accumulate, which will still be there when you fill back up later. Just my two cents worth.
Oh yeah, did I mention........I hate ethanol added fuel. *&(%$#!!!!!

 

[BarryB]

From Chevron's web site:

Chevron gasoline can be stored for a year without deterioration when the storage conditions are good -- a tightly closed container, moderate temperatures, and out of direct sunlight.

Chevron recommends that gasoline not be stored unnecessarily. A supply that won't be needed for several months should be used and replenished when the need reoccurs.

 

[pamarine]

From Chevron's web site:

Chevron gasoline can be stored for a year without deterioration when the storage conditions are good -- a tightly closed container, moderate temperatures, and out of direct sunlight.

Chevron recommends that gasoline not be stored unnecessarily. A supply that won't be needed for several months should be used and replenished when the need reoccurs.

None of the technical info on their site confirms that statement (I did find where it was made, though). In fact, Chevron specifically recommends no more than a few months.

 

[BarrNone]

Put some Startron Star Tron Enzyme Fuel Treatment - HOME in it and then fill her up with some high octane quality fuel like Chevron and you should be fine.

I would also consider pending the temps naturally, running the engine on the hose or with the outboard lowered down in a trough fill with some coolant so it does not freeze, and let he idle for long enough to bring it up to FOT (Full Operating Temperature) to help keep everything turned over every month or so



If I follow this , doesn't it completely defeat the purpose of winterizing the motor? I hate to think I spent $15,000 on a new motor and then it gets all gummed up or worse. As far as storage time, I would have to guess that around here I probably store it for 3-4 months before I get the itch to get back on the water. And as long as it's been brought up, which is better StarTron or Stabil? Same as the fuel issue, I've heard pro's and con's for both, or is it more of a personal preference thing?

 

[pamarine]

Star Brite actually recommends using Stabil alongside Star-Tron for long-term storage. This allows the enzyme-based Start-tron to focus on the ethanol and associated issue while the Stabil works on keeping the gasoline from breaking down.

 

[Push&Pull]

Everybody will use whatever method or additives they choose, but mind you, there is one absolute that you shouldn't overlook. Every single product out there will provide an abundance of indisputable facts and promises about how their additives work......and it's all BS. If you have problems, they won't be there with any warranty or support. Probably pointing a finger at some other issue. Even the fuel suppliers are so unreliable about adding the Ethanol, there is no assurance of only 10%. (the more they add, the more money they make) You won't know at the pumps.... and any higher levels will absolutely damage the engines. Additionally if your fuel (no matter how high a grade) separates, the concentration of ethanol, along with all the sludge will cause problems or damage. And no filter will help. I only pass this on so you can be informed. What you do with it is up to you. Do I have the solution. No, I don't....... but my engine is not under warranty and I do all my own maintenance. So for now, I will use methods to periodically check my fuel and dispose of any I find unacceptable until I find a better way. What I won't do is rely on product propaganda when it's my wallet that gets hit. Hopefully everybody will be lucky and we won't hear of any motor damage here.

Here's and option for storage. I am going to have some surgery in a few weeks and while I'm out of commision........my boat will be sittin. I'm gonna drain all the remaining fuel into my truck. Then I'm taking the boat to a station I found listed on the internet that still sells NON-Ethanol fuel and top it off. Add some Stabil. Problem solved for now. I'll deal with the ongoing ethanol issue later. Sorry for the long rambling post. Climbing down off soapbox now.

 

[BarrNone]

What is the defintion of long term storage? Does 3-4 months qualify? I really want to take care of this motor as it will probably be the last one I buy, assuming I don't hit the lottery LOL.

 

[Push&Pull]

While there are many varying factors, with Ethanol fuel, phase separation can begin as soon as 2 to 3 weeks. Like I said......It's cr**. Some more great improvements shoved down our throats. And 15% Ethanol is scratching at the door. I'm starting to miss white gas and adding oil.

 

[Dave LeGear]

What is the defintion of long term storage? Does 3-4 months qualify? I really want to take care of this motor as it will probably be the last one I buy, assuming I don't hit the lottery LOL.

If you do hit the Lottery, don't forget about us Brother

Best bet is to find a local supplier of "pure fuel" which some stations still do sale. Try a local Google search for such would be my first recommendation.

Next option you are back to putting in quality fuel with the brands of Mo Jo Juice already stated And then make sure your fuel filters are in great shape to help snag what may still hit the fuel lines.

I only take on fuel every few months and with the combo we have already discussed,

• Quality fuel Note:I always use high octane which could prevent some "performance" issues others are reporting that could be more octane related and not necessarily due to E10 fuel. Here again, most users and drivers do not understand the possible or long term effects of low octane and low detergent fuel use on injected and computer controlled engines.
  
• Startron
• Fuel filter service / draining

This in an environment worse than yours as far as heat and moisture goes and have never seen an issue with mine or those that I have recommended the same

Best,
Dave